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Premier Trading Frames - Duraflex uPVC
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Dave
Newbie
Join Date: 02/11/2009
Posts: 2
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Posted: 02/11/2009 6:56:58 PM
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Hi all to what looks like a great site. Thanks to those who put in the time and effort to maintain and provide advice.
Anyway, we are making some final decisions over double glazing. We are torn between two companies. One company is using Kommerling 58mm 'slim sash' made by Whiteline in Eastbourne.
The other company is recommending Premier Windows, made in Wales using Duraflex uPVC, saying it's the best on the market.
Both companies have an excellent reputation so there is nothing to chose from there, but the Premier windows are significanly cheaper.
I'm more familiar with Kommerling so my gut instinct says to go with them. However, if Premier are really good then I'd be getting comparable windows whilst saving a good chunk of my hard earned.
I'd appreciate any insight anyone can give, based on their experience.
Many thanks,
Dave
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DIY Conservatories Chris
Intermediate
Join Date: 30/09/2009
Posts: 79
Location: Sheffield, UK
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Posted: 02/11/2009 9:31:46 PM
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Hi Dave,
Bith the Kommerling and Duraflex suite of products are (to the best of my knowledge) well established and reputable profiles.
One thing that springs to mind is that you mention the Kommerling suite is 58mm. I would double check this if I were you to see if it is the width or the depth. By width I mean from the outside face (grooves) to the face where the beading fits in (or glass rebate), or is it in fact the depth (or thickness front to back).
If it is indeed the thickness, be aware that the majority of profile is now 70mm and as such usually has a greater number of chambers within it, thus helping to increase both strength and thermal efficiency. 58mm or 60mm as it is more commonly referred is now considered 'old'.
Also you did not mention the company who were offering Kommerling, if you did then there's a better chance forum memebers may be able to pass comment on them.
As for Duraflex being the best on the market, I would generally take comments like that with a pinch of 'well they supply it, so they're bound to say that' salt. Whichever profile, they should all be manufactured in accordance with particular standards such as BSEN 1206 for the profile and BS7412 for the manufacture of the window.
The main point here is that you need to feel confident with whoever you choose, all too often (particularly in this economic climate) people choose solely on price, which is not always necessarily a bad thing but you need to be sure you are going to receive customer service that you will be happy with.
Check both of their specifications in detail and make sure you have been quoted 'like for like'.
for example, thickness of profile, are the frames fully reinforced or not, thickness of glazing nnits, is the glass being supplied all toughened or only in the required safety zones, what is the locking mechanisms used, do they offer greater security on one or the other, and of course the product warranties (check this with both profile and hardware as sometimes hardware, handles, etc come with a shorter warranty). It can seem like a headache, but it will tell you if there is a reason one is cheaper than the other. You never know you may just have found yourself a real bargain.
Hope this helps,
DIY Conservatories
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow.
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DIY Conservatories Chris
Intermediate
Join Date: 30/09/2009
Posts: 79
Location: Sheffield, UK
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Dave
Newbie
Join Date: 02/11/2009
Posts: 2
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Posted: 02/11/2009 10:23:53 PM
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Chris,
Many thanks for your reply.
The 58mm Kommerling is manufactured by Whiteline in Eastbourne and is known as Goldline. The 58 mm is measured front to back, and the reason this is high on our list is that we are replacing Georgian style timber windows, so the amount of plastic really counts. Whiteline manufacture this 58mm window with a really slim sash, which minimises the plastic and maximises the window area. The window to window distance between two frames is only 148 mm (equal sight line), when compared with I believe 175 mm plus from a standard 70 mm Kommerling.
It's amazing what you can find out from the internet. Since posting I found out that the double glazing company, Duraflex and Premier Trade Frames are all owned by Masco, hence the keen price I've achieved from the double glazing supplier. The windows seem to be generically marketed as Duragreen (www.duragreen.co.uk). It seems to be the trade frame for some double glazing suppliers. The window to window dimension for this frame is a slightly greater 160mm, so there's a little more plastic than the Whiteline slim sash, but not a lot in it. Both windows are B rated.
I'm going to be spending around £9500 if I go for the Kommerling/Whiteline 58mm slim sash and around £8500 if I go for the duragreen. Both are offering good locking system and no-tint glass.
Something's nagging me about the Duragreen, given it doesn't seem to be a well known 'brand'. This is once in a 20 year decision so I'd rather spend what I need to, and not regret the purchase later. But if the duragreen's are really good I don't want to spend an additional grand.
One other piece of information is I've seen both windows in a house and they both look good and have 10 year guantees.
Chris, any further comments, or any comments from others who are in the know?
Many thanks is advance,
Dave
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DIY Conservatories Chris
Intermediate
Join Date: 30/09/2009
Posts: 79
Location: Sheffield, UK
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Posted: 03/11/2009 12:03:54 PM
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Hi Dave,
I'm still a bit confused as to why the company is marketing a 58mm profile based on it having a 'slim' characteristic. As far as I'm aware all profile suites have a slim, intermediate and large variant, but it doesn't refer to the thickness (front ot back) it refers to the width. This example image should help to show you.[URL=http://s564.photobucket.com/albums/ss82/conservatree4u/?action=view¤t=Profilewidths.jpg][IMG]http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss82/conservatree4u/th_Profilewidths.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Notice how all of them are 70mm thick, but vary in width.
Perhaps it may be worth asking premier if they will specify the slim for you. It also seems strange that a 58mm section is more expensive than a 70mm, but it could be down to the installation costs (I'm assuming your prices are for installation also).
I have also done a bit of digging this morning and it seems to me that 'Duragreen' is the brand name for their products which are being marketed as the top level energy efficiency rated (A) windows, including warm edge spacer to give the best level of rating. You original post refers to Duraflex, perhaps this is the reason for 'B' rated. Again, would it be worth looking at 'A' rated, as you say it's a major investment. You never know Premier may give you 'A' at same or better price than others.
My business has an environment/ethical policy which (on a purley personal note) would steer me towards the greener option, but again only you know what feels best for you.
With regard to the 'brand' awareness. As an example, last time I looked into it a company called Synseal were the market leaders in the conservatory supply sector, but generally people haven't heard of their brand over the likes of say Ultraframe or K2. Just food for thought, maybe.
Whichever way you go, perhaps you could come back a post a thread under the supplier section to let everybody know of your experience for others future reference.
Cheers,
DIY Conservatories
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow.
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DIY Conservatories Chris
Intermediate
Join Date: 30/09/2009
Posts: 79
Location: Sheffield, UK
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Posted: 03/11/2009 12:07:54 PM
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Let me try that link again, it hasn't appeared to have worked.
[IMG]http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss82/conservatree4u/Profilewidths.jpg[/IMG]
Cheers, C
DIY Conservatories
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow.
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DIY Conservatories Chris
Intermediate
Join Date: 30/09/2009
Posts: 79
Location: Sheffield, UK
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DIY Conservatories Chris
Intermediate
Join Date: 30/09/2009
Posts: 79
Location: Sheffield, UK
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Posted: 03/11/2009 12:45:53 PM
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A last! Hopefully you can now see that all the profiles are 70mm thick (front to back) or top to bottom as shown in this image, but have different widths. If, as you say, the Kommerling is 58mm thick, then that doesn't have any bearing on the effect of visible plastic around the 'viewing' area so to speak.
Hope this has helped a bit more (apart from the image linking cock ups).
Cheers,
DIY Conservatories
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow.
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Coogey
Newbie
Join Date: 17/11/2009
Posts: 6
Location: High Wycombe
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Posted: 17/11/2009 3:46:09 AM
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I have years of double glazing experience so have chosen Veka to sell. Veka network have the best no quibble guarantee on the market and their 70mm products are superb.
They use virgin upvc and have a well designed drainage system (unlike Anglian). Their doors are well reinforced and are much stronger than most on the market.
I have duraflex in my house and used to sell that product, but Veka is certainly superior and has a more pleasant shade of white. I would stay well clear of a 58mm system, particularly for doors, unless you want "shaky" doors for some reason.
I do not know if there is a Veka supplier near you that is part of Veka Network who independently monitor and assess their members work. If the job is not properly installed, you simply contact Veka network and they will sort the installing company out.Veka network member companies have to have their installers trained and certified by Veka.Every company is audited monthly and have several randomly selected installations survey checked annually.And should the supplying company cease trading for whatever reason, then with just a phonecall, one of over 140 other Veka network companies will be appointed to cover your guarantees at no extra charge to you.
regards
Coogey
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DIY Conservatories Chris
Intermediate
Join Date: 30/09/2009
Posts: 79
Location: Sheffield, UK
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Posted: 17/11/2009 10:06:33 PM
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Hi Coogey,
With your years of experience, I'm sure you can add alot of value on the forum with help and advice.
However, as is usual with Forum etiquette, it would be prudent for you to keep to topic. On this post the OP had a particular query relating to particular products and would benefit from advice relating specifically to that issue.
Your point regarding the use of 58mm profile is obviously welcomed, but the rest of your reply is really just a blatant advert. There is permitted code that can be inserted into posts if you wish to link to your company or products, it would be better if you used that to offer the opportunity for others to choose to check you out.
Cheers,
DIY Conservatories
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow.
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simongolding9
Newbie
Join Date: 17/06/2009
Posts: 5
Location: Somerset
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Posted: 24/11/2009 12:51:33 PM
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Dave
referenece choice of company, i had windows and conservatory installed by New Look Windows (Somerset/ Somerton) Limited who sourced their kit from Premier Trade in caerphilly , Wales, assume it is the same company. Personally i would not use these since we have had loads of issues including warping of doors, windows sticking due to heat.
Of course it could all be down to the installer!!
I didi email premier with issues when new Look wnet into adminstartion, but no response....
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Coogey
Newbie
Join Date: 17/11/2009
Posts: 6
Location: High Wycombe
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Posted: 25/11/2009 12:14:07 AM
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DIY Conservatories
No need to link to my site as I don't want to sell anything just give impartial advice to those who ask.
Coincidentally, I had a customer in today who we installed just a few years ago. She was complaining that her cousin's windows that we installed this month were so much better and more attractive than hers and asked why.My truthful answer was that she had Duraflex and now that were Veka dealers, her cousin had Veka installed by Veka trained fitters.
Sorry about any protocol broken and apologise for what I percieved as good advice.
Coogey
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DIY Conservatories Chris
Intermediate
Join Date: 30/09/2009
Posts: 79
Location: Sheffield, UK
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Posted: 25/11/2009 9:56:08 AM
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Quote: Quoted From Coogey:
DIY Conservatories
No need to link to my site as I don't want to sell anything just give impartial advice to those who ask.
Coincidentally, I had a customer in today who we installed just a few years ago. She was complaining that her cousin's windows that we installed this month were so much better and more attractive than hers and asked why.My truthful answer was that she had Duraflex and now that were Veka dealers, her cousin had Veka installed by Veka trained fitters.
Sorry about any protocol broken and apologise for what I percieved as good advice.
Coogey
That's hardly impartial advice. The OP wants information about either Duraflex or Kommerling.
You would be better served by suggesting he might want to check out other profiles before making his final decision, say perhaps VEKA. That would then be similar to any other poster coming along and suggesting, say, Synseal or Eurocell or Rehau, etc. But just saying how fantastic VEKA is because we install it, yet again doesn't constitute impartial.
Again, I refer to the PM I sent to you.
Cheers,
DIY Conservatories
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow.
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Glassglen
Beginner
Join Date: 10/01/2010
Posts: 48
Location: Kent
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Posted: 10/01/2010 10:05:52 AM
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Hi
My first post and hopefully it will help.
I own a glass company and we use to buy from whiteline and install their windows. I must say they seemed ok and never had any trouble but from a installers point i was disappointed with the beading on small sashes(they were a bugger to get in as they are mitred) but overall a good window. For the past 2 years we have moved to duraflex and have had no problems, yes they are a different colour, these are brilliant white as opposed to of white. The difference in cost would be that duraflex profile is a lot cheaper than kommerlings..with that said i have had less problems with duraflex and with the price difference would go duraflex...btw duraflex come in 65 & 70mm
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DIY Conservatories Chris
Intermediate
Join Date: 30/09/2009
Posts: 79
Location: Sheffield, UK
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Posted: 14/01/2010 3:59:36 PM
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Thanks for your input Glassglen. I think it's good to point out the difference that can be found with 'whites'. Often consumers, think that if they pick and choose where they buy individual replacements from that they will be the same. Colour matching is often the last thing thought about.
Cheers,
DIY Conservatories
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow.
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albatross
Beginner
Join Date: 11/02/2010
Posts: 25
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Posted: 11/02/2010 3:20:42 PM
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Kommerling is by far the better product but with the pound to the euro it has now become expensive as it is imported from europe. The duraflex is a nice product but if you can get the kommerling for the same money go gold, go kommerling.
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